MEETING BETWEEN DERBY AND DISTRICT LAW SOCIETY FAMILY SUB-COMMITTEE AND LOCAL DISTRICT JUDGES
Held on:
Monday, 11 January 2021
Present:
District Judge Davies
District Judge Parker
District Judge Gillespie
Fiona Apthorpe (Secretary: D & DLS Family Committee)
Kirpal Bidmead
Diana Copestake
Nick Herbert
Manesha Ruparel
Julie Skill
Remote Hearings
Most hearings at Derby are currently being conducted remotely and, indeed, the guidance is that they should be dealt with remotely “if at all possible”.
D J Gillespie reported that she has done quite a few children fact finds and final hearings. There are challenges. It is not possible to move around in court, the witness box cannot be used and no touching of Holy books. Broadly however, the hearings have worked well though. District Judge Parker has done some hybrid cases where CAFCASS have been remote. Generally, a positive reaction from those involved. The parties are not generally disadvantaged by not being physically present. However, the fact finds may be more challenging. Dealing with cases by telephone may be a bit more difficult, especially where dealing with litigants in person.
Practitioners to note that there are now large screens in some of the District Judge rooms and the District Judge courtrooms. This enables witnesses to be physically seen in hybrid hearings.
Manesha commented that final hearings in particular, are being dealt with quite efficiently. Fiona concurred. Counsel are paid a fixed fee, but where solicitors are present, they can obviously be getting on with the day job back in the office and simply be called in when needed, which means that the clients are not paying for a full day of their solicitor’s time in court, creating significant savings.
HHJ Rogers has confirmed that for finance cases video link hearings should be the norm even for FDA’s and FDRs. Face to face should be the exception not the norm rather than telephone. Children cases may be more difficult and they are cases where it may be necessary to deal with cases by telephone. It needs to be recognised that litigants in person do not always have the necessary technology.
Generally, the Judges felt that the procedural hearings were working very well on the phone, particularly if the decisions were not controversial.
DJ Davies intimated a preference for Teams, although the courts are being told to use the CVP platform. However, this ties up a member of staff to assist the Judge. With money cases, DJ Davies would much prefer simply to set up the Teams meeting himself.
Nick commented that BT Meet Me can be problematic sometimes using a mobile. DJ Davies said that they had been told to try and phase out using BT Meet me, but it is needed for private hearings where one party is not represented.
Certainly the general feeling is that remote hearings are quite efficient.
DJ Davies commented, however, that it does make it impossible to run block lists. Therefore, each case has to be listed at a particular time. Also, remote hearings make it less likely to settle and create less time for discussion, negotiation and narrowing the issues in advance.
There is a pressure on physical courtrooms at Derby which obviously has an impact. There are only two proper courtrooms which are used by the CJs, which is why Derby is using the magistrates court and Chesterfield as outreach courts.
Listings
Broadly, listings seem to be ok. No complaints about care listings. Last week listing on 04 and 05 January for 25 and 28 January, so the timescales are not too bad.
There is a pressure from the non-molestation hearings being dealt with by solicitors from other areas to whom victims of domestic abuse are referred by the police or DA agencies. Not so much troubling local practitioners but there were nearly three hundred non mols last year, compared with just over two hundred the year before. Obviously the impact of the Covid-19 lockdown.
The listing situation has been assisted by the fact that Derby now has a dedicated Family Listing Officer.
Issue
Nick commented that there was a long delay in issuing Forms A through Nottingham. The twelve to sixteen week timescale for the FDA appears to be more honoured in the breach. Lack of DNs were holding up a lot of cases before. It was also noted that DAs are taking longer to come through.
Practitioners are dealing with divorce cases on-line but this doesn’t work if both parties are represented, which is a problem.
DJ Davies did comment that the FRC has had the benefit of more staff, but it may be a lack of court dates available due to Covid-19 that is causing the backlog. The FRC consent orders are now being turned around within 7 days once they are uploaded to the FRC platform in most cases.
E-Bundles
DJ Gillespie commented that it is much easier for the court to deal with a proper e-bundle with a navigable and searchable Index. Some bundles are still being scanned in and they are difficult to negotiate, although it is recognised that not every firm has the technology. Some courts however, e.g. Manchester, are saying that all bundles must be in a bookmarked format.
DJ Davies commented that if we send a pdf to the court, there is a 20mb limit at Derby to a justice.gov.uk in box. Therefore, the bundle is 50mb it will have to be split three ways. However, there is a larger limit as he understands it on an e-judiciary account, so rather than send it to @justice.gov.uk, it could be sent directly to the Judge if the Judge has no objection to that. All three DJ’s present confirmed they have no objection (and a positive preference) for bundles to be emailed to them direct by professionals.
The court are looking at a drop box facility and civil in Nottingham are trialling this for future use.
Conclusion
Fiona thanked the District Judges for their valuable time this afternoon. It is proposed to meet again in another six months when, hopefully, the lockdown will have ended and some semblance of normality may be returning!
11.01.2021
Fiona M. K. Apthorpe Secretary D&DLS Family Committee